BN

Do you think chipmunks would steal bigger baby birds? I saw one eating a big juicy earth worm the other day. I had no idea they were "meat eaters".
I love bird watching, but it doesn't always turn out well.

Poor little birds. i wish we could have found one to raise.

About that bird on the ground, chaterinet, it's possible that it fell out while trying to learn to fly and was ambushed there. Does that sound likely?

We moved to this 33 acres about 30 years ago and the guy who owned it before us mowed much of it. We just let it all grow up and its a real forest now (except for all that danged bush honeysuckle). Every year, more and more wildlife show up.
So its exactly like you said.....we get to experience more of their successes and their failures too.

Its pretty easy for us humans to try to see things as "Disney", but its not that way at all. I guess because we're at the top of the food chain, and can insulate ourselves from alot of the ways of nature, we are somewhat aghast when we see the "downside", or the reality.
I'm rambling. :)
I did have a phoebe nest over the light on our front porch and I believe I'm seeing her little ones around the yard now. Oh....and there's a hummer sitting on her miniature nest in a pine close to the house, so hopefully we'll see her little ones fly around soon.
Lots to be grateful for.

BN

BN

"Why are so many martin landlords reluctant and/or afraid to lower their martin houses during the breeding season to conduct weekly nests checks? I think it's because, as children, we were told by our parents that touching or disturbing a bird's nest would cause the parents to abandon their young. We now know that such assertions are false and amount to nothing more than 'old wive's tales.' Birds will not abandon their nests or young when touched by humans - they have far too much "parental investment" accumulated in them by that stage to be so wasteful of their reproductive effort. In fact, anyone who has tried to discourage English House Sparrows or European Starlings from nesting in their martin houses by repeatedly tearing out their nests, knows how nearly impossible it can be to cause a bird to abandon its breeding site. It's the same with Purple Martins - humans can lower their housing, touch their nestlings, and even replace their wet nests, as often as necessary. None of these activities will cause martins to abandon their nests, young, or colony sites. Martins are incredibly tolerant of human disturbance, which is good, because conducting weekly nests checks is unquestionably the most beneficial activity a landlord can do to help their martins. Leaving them undisturbed, on the other hand, can, and usually does, lead to lower reproductive success. Ironically, you are far more likely to have your martins abandon your site by not doing nest checks than by doing them. If you want to do what is best for the martins under your care, get out there and do weekly nest checks!"

We are going to learn about the world around us, but we are going to do it the right way. Can you send me some info like what you were talking about? We didn't touch the nest at all, so please send dependable info on observing the nest close-up.

Thank you!

"Predation has exerted a strong influence on the evolution of habitat selection and life his- tory traits for many avian species (Martin 1993b). Research on a broad array of ecolog- ical topics requires estimates of avian fecun- dity. Because nest predation is the major cause of nest failure in passerines (Ricklefs 1969; Martin 1992, 1993a, b), researchers have fre- quently expressed concerns that monitoring might artificially increase predation rates (Mayfield 1975, Major 1990, Gotmark 1992).
Predators might be attracted to nests by vi- sual cues, such as the presence of researchers, trampling of vegetation, increased activity of parent birds, and by olfactory cues. Mamma- lian predators are thought to follow tracks in the vegetation and to respond to human scent along the trails or at the nests (Creighton 1971, Wilson 1976, No1 and Brooks 1982, Gotmark 1992, Whelan et al. 1994). In a re- view paper on investigator bias, Gotmark (1992) concluded there was little or no evi- dence that researcher disturbance increased mammalian predation rates. "

I really am trying to do this right. Any accurate info you have would help.

I am working right now so Ill not be searching but here is one site I posted previously

US Army Corps of Engineering site

http://www.mvs.usace.army.mil/Shelbyville/birdnestandeggs06.htm

current danger to nesting birds, and one to which even the most well-meaning bird enthusiast may subject them, is unintended disturbance. The bird is a creature that normally evades its enemies by flying or running away. When incubating eggs or brooding young, the parent birds are tied to the nest. If a predator of some kind does attack, then it is better that the parent bird should survive and nest again; therefore, the bird generally leaves the nest to the attacker. Under natural conditions the predator that finds the nest will destroy it, and probably search the nest site again at a later time; therefore, it is safer if the bird does not return to the same nesting site. Unfortunately, the bird cannot discriminate between a harmful predator and an inquisitive human, so a clumsy inspection of a nest when a bird is sitting might cause the bird to desert the nest and its contents completely.
Birds are likely to desert in the early stages of laying and incubation. When the young songbirds are growing feathers but still within a few days of being ready to leave the nest, they may leave prematurely if the nest is touched. In addition to this, the slightest disturbance of twigs, leaves or grass, necessary to see into a nest, may be sufficient to indicate, to a sharp-eyed predator, the presence of a previously hidden nest. Lastly, lingering near a nest may prevent the birds from returning and cause eggs and young to become fatally chilled.

Two years in a row, Chipping Sparrows have nested there successfully. This year, a Robin is nesting. I have to do stuff in the vicinity of the shrub - like use the hose, clean out the gutters (Silver maple wings), etc. However, I am careful not to disturb the shrub itself, and don't even open the window on that side. One year, I got too close and wiggled the shrub accidentally which caused Chipping Sparrow nestlings to jump out of the nest (they were pretty much ready and okay, Momma was feeding them). I theorized that they felt the movement, and interpreted that as a predator climbing the shrub.

Here are results of a very quick search:

1.Code of Birding Ethics from the American Birding Association
http://www.libirding.com/BirdEthics.html

Keep well back from nests and nesting colonies, roosts, display areas, and important feeding sites. In such sensitive areas, if there is a need for extended observation, photography, filming or recording, try to use a blind or hide, and take advantage of natural cover.

2. Sibley�s Guide to Birds
Page 14, Ethics: "Avoid making a disturbance, especially at roosting and nesting sites."

3. Audubon Society. Birding Etiquette
http://web4.audubon.org/bird/at_home/bird_watching/basics_etiquette.sh tml

Take extra care when in a potential or active nesting area. It is hard enough for birds to compete with each other for mates and space; human interference causes additional stress.

4. Birding/Wild birds
http://birding.about.com/od/birdingbasics/a/ethics.htm

Stay on marked trails and avoid entering restricted areas, no matter how tempting it may be to venture closer to a bird. Disturbing a bird�s feeding area or nesting sites can cause unhealthy stress and fear that may drive the bird away, not only out of range of the birder�s observations but permanently forcing the bird to find a safer, less disturbed habitat where it will not be able to be observed.

Calling attention to a nest by visiting it repeatedly - and the key word is repeatedly, not just once to return a chick - is dangerous to the nestlings. If you love birds, leave the nests alone.

When robins built a nest on our porch, I quickly googled and found plenty of information, including warnings to not draw attention to the nest. When my kids were babies, I wouldn't have appreciated large mammals peeking in at them as they slept, so I wouldn't do that to another mom. =)

I don't think it's fair to blame Deanna, as no one knows what really happened. But I do think it's fair to warn anyone reading this thread to stay away from nests.

Claire

Claire

The storm has since passed, but still no sign of mom. Would she have abandoned this nest after it was raided? I know I can't put him back tonight because there is still no sign of mom. I know a *bit* about feeding hatchlings, but don't want to take on a wild baby. I also know the difficult job of taking care of this bird until it is big enough but hope someone here will tell me the mom will return tomorrow! Wishful thinking?What should I do? Please no criticism, I know it was not the best idea to bring it in, but this was a very bad storm that took some trees in surrounding areas in it's fury. There is another robin nest with four (3 day old) hatchlings in the front yard. Would that mom take on a foster if it just showed up in the nest, or would it recognize the intruder? I know some species will do this, not sure of robins. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Otherwise I will have to call wildlife svs. tomorrow.

Don�t take my post as a criticism. Everybody has good intention and what we are doing here is exchanging information.

Contrary to your statement human activity will definitely bring predators to the nest. Human scent has nothing to do with it and will not bring or scare away any avian predators since birds can�t smell. It is the activity in and around the nests the alerts naturally curious predators. A hawk can see a mouse from thousand feet away because of the superior eye site and its ability to detect even the smallest of movements. If the predator is in the area your movement definitely brings his attention to it and then even the slightest disturbance of twigs, leaves or grass, necessary to see into a nest, may be sufficient to indicate, to a sharp-eyed predator, the location of the nest.

Your statement: "Nothing stopped the parents from coming back and look after their babies. " is also extremely irresponsible. Your knowledge is very limited and its based on a specific area with very limited number of species and here you are implying that it is ok to do what you are doing. There are species of birds, which will absolutely positively not tolerate any disturbance of the nest and will definitely abandon it. For you, with your limited knowledge to go against all expert opinions make this broad statement extremely disturbing.
Everybody needs to make their own decisions based on available information. I for one would not take any thing said here by anyone, including myself, as a bible because we are not experts and our knowledge is extremely limited. However,I will definitely pay attention to the Code of Birding Ethics from the American Birding Association widely adopted by experts in this field which unequivocally states: " Keep well back from nests and nesting colonies, roosts, display areas, and important feeding sites. In such sensitive areas, if there is a need for extended observation, photography, filming or recording, try to use a blind or hide, and take advantage of natural cover."
If for some reason expert�s opinion does not do it for you, there are federal laws protecting our native birds with stiff penalties for each disturbance. I assure you that remodeling, moving of the nest as well as keeping birds in your house is punishable by fines of up to $15,000 each.

Creeper, I would like to point out the difference between (1) your posting of the US Army Corps of Engineering site, which agreed completely with starlinka when it stated, "Birds are likely to desert in the early stages of laying and incubation. When the young songbirds are growing feathers but still within a few days of being ready to leave the nest, they may leave prematurely if the nest is touched," and (2) your posting of what is only an ethics statement, with what I posted, which is a research article from a peer-reviewed scientific journal that says your statements about human involvement are incorrect, but rather "concluded there was little or no evi- dence that researcher disturbance increased mammalian predation rates."

We all desire to do learn about nature, protect it, and enjoy it, and information does nothing but make us wiser.

At least I know I can do extensive landscaping around a nesting site without danger, and also with your approval.

My question now- should I remove the hopefully empty nest so that the mother will not return to lay more eggs there? I would hate for the same thing to happen again, it is in a high traffic area adjacent to our patio very open to the back field where hawks, crows and turkey vultures all hang around. not to mention this is a favorite tree for chipmunks and red squirrels like to hang out. I think they eat the cherries (and baby birds!)

"Provide Warmth: If returning the bird to the nest is NOT possible, it is imperative that you provide warmth for the baby bird. Young birds are vulnerable to chill and pneumonia. When you hold the baby bird in your hand, it should feel warmer than your hand. Warmth can be provided with a hot water bottle or heating pad turned on to low. Snuggle the bird in facial tissue directly against the source of warmth, but be sure it is not too hot!!!. If you�ve rescued an injured bird, place it in a well-ventilated box, over a heating pad on low (or hot water bottle) in a dark, quiet place, away from household pets and noise. Sometimes, just allowing a few hours rest and recuperation is all that is required.
Housing: Make an artificial nest from a plastic berry box and use facial tissue for nest material. Do not use cloth, shredded paper, cotton or grass as these may result in injury. The legs of the baby are not strong enough to support it, so rest the baby bird in a semi-upright position so that the edges provide support for the body and head. Do not let the bird sprawl on the bottom of the nest. (If you know the location the bird was found, it is best to place it back in the same area so the parents will find it�they�ve been searching! Contrary to popular belief, parents will not reject the baby because you�ve touched it. You can use string or rope to secure the berry box to the limb of a tree or deep bush (a hidden location). Use only enough rope necessary, do not leave any extra string dangling. Watch the nest constantly for at least two hours from as far away as possible to allow the parents to safely reconnect with the baby. The parents will show up for just a few seconds, feed it and take off until the next feeding. If you do not see this happening, continue to care for the bird until you find help."

"The parents will show up for just a few seconds, feed it and take off until the next feeding. If you do not see this happening, continue to care for the bird until you find help."

Again, don't pay any mind to what Creeper wrote, just feed poor thing!

Here is a set of studies looking at impact of human disturbance on robins and similar birds:
http://tinyurl.com/7bgp3yn
http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Wilson/v111n03/p0415-p0420.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/6wey3eg
http://tinyurl.com/87nzm26

The last link is especially significant because it's a meta-analysis (it combines the results of many studies). They found no general effect of human interference on nest predation, but interestingly the impact varied by kind of bird. Charadriiformes (gulls and shorebirds) showed little or no effect, whereas Passeriformes (most small birds, including robins) actually *benefitted* from human interference. They suggested that this effect depends on what proportion of the nest predators are mammals, since wild mammals are often more timid around humans than birds are. As a result, birds whose nests are often preyed on by mammals benefit from human presence, because this scares away their predators.

Claire