ftp://www.nerc.com/pub/sys/all_updl/docs/pressrel/LTRARelease-10-2006.pdf

Sarah

The problem, of course, is that this situation highlights the reality: it's possible to generate a large percentage of our domestic electricity from pv, but most people couldn't afford it. Coastal and mountain areas could generate huge amounts of elecricity from wind, as well. On the coasts, politics are generally against it. For instance, here a large and well thought out design for a wind-farm in shallow waters was finally rejected, indirectly, by congress because Mass legislators in general and the governor did not support it. They did not support it because wealthy vacationers in general did not support it. Wealthy vacationers don't want to look at ugly wind-towers (NIMBY). They'd much prefer folks in appalachia look at ugly stripped mountain tops and wallow in flooded valleys (yes, definitely in their backyard, please). Those folks have little influence in congress.

First, we (human beings) don't like to think about having to give up our unsustainable way of life. Second, Politicians don't get elected by giving bad news (unless it can be tied to the incumbant politician). Third, even if we accept that we will someday run out of oil, we don't know exactly when that will be.

I applaud you pnbrown. Not many people would drop 60K to go off-grid. Of course most don't even acknowledge the problem. DOLLARs will drive the machine. As long as most people have access to relatively cheap electricity there will be absolutely no push toward alternatives.

No need to applaud me, Russ, it's not my money (I couldn't not possibly afford to do that - I'd quit using juice before I spent that kind of money), and believe it or not, it will not liberate them from the grid. It's a "grid-tie" system, so if the grid power goes down, the solar array must automatically disconnect so as not to electrocute repairmen. Gird-tie and stand-alone systems do not mesh well.

As it happens, we are intstalling panels on the roof today.

I'm sure many more birds are killed just by suburban sprawl and destruction of their habitat and use of pesticides.

Wind in general has an enormous effect on birds , Last friday was extremely windy here. The temperature was 19 degrees I looked out my kitchen window and a rufous hummingbird was there trying to get nectar from a frozen feeder. I'm sure the wind blew her here from the pacific northwest where she was probably born

In the UK last summer I saw many huge wind-turbine installations, sometimes as "wind farms", especially along the coasts. The large turbines have very large and slow-turning blades, and people with knowledge about the installations told me that birds are rarely killed by them, though in some places bats do seem to be attracted (and sometimes injured or killed) for some reason.

I've sometimes contemplated the sacrifices people and industies made (due to gov't rationing policies as well as felt necessity and patriotism) that people in the Allied countries made to get through World War II. Think, for example, of the "victory gardens." I'm sure people and corporations would not stand for rationing policies now, in our peacetime environment. But the example suggests what our range of human capabilities are. Raising public consciousness and concern (in part to pressure industry) would seem to be a key with conservation.

Joel

His analysis says that much more coal displacement can be obtained, dime for dime, through investment in energy-use conservation and microenergy production than can be obtained through investment in nuclear power plants.

Wave power can spin magnets (like all turbines) to create electricity directly (which requires a netwotk of cables for transmission) or it can be used for electrolysis of seawater to create hydrogen gas, it the US can ever get the hydrogen fuel cell to be practical.

Wave power devices extract energy directly from surface waves or from pressure fluctuations below the surface. Renewable energy analysts believe there is enough energy in the ocean waves to provide up to 2 terawatts of electricity. (A terawatt is equal to a trillion watts.)

Offshore systems are situated in deep water, typically of more than 40 meters (131 feet). Sophisticated mechanisms—like the Salter Duck—use the bobbing motion of the waves to power a pump that creates electricity. Other offshore devices use hoses connected to floats that ride the waves. The rise and fall of the float stretches and relaxes the hose, which pressurizes the water, which, in turn, rotates a turbine.

Specially built seagoing vessels can also capture the energy of offshore waves. These floating platforms create electricity by funneling waves through internal turbines and then back into the sea.

Built along shorelines, onshore wave power systems extract the energy in breaking waves. Onshore system technologies include the following:

Oscillating water column
The oscillating water column consists of a partially submerged concrete or steel structure that has an opening to the sea below the waterline. It encloses a column of air above a column of water. As waves enter the air column, they cause the water column to rise and fall. This alternately compresses and depressurizes the air column. As the wave retreats, the air is drawn back through the turbine as a result of the reduced air pressure on the ocean side of the turbine.

Tapchan
The tapchan, or tapered channel system, consists of a tapered channel, which feeds into a reservoir constructed on cliffs above sea level. The narrowing of the channel causes the waves to increase in height as they move toward the cliff face. The waves spill over the walls of the channel into the reservoir and the stored water is then fed through a turbine.

Pendulor device
The pendulor wave-power device consists of a rectangular box, which is open to the sea at one end. A flap is hinged over the opening and the action of the waves causes the flap to swing back and forth. The motion powers a hydraulic pump and a generator.

Clearly, we can't keep burning carbon-based fuels.

I was in Scotland and England late last summer, and while touring around with British aquaintances (looking at wind turbines), half of these people seemed more enthusiastic about the possibilities of tidal power.

Joel

Joel

pnbrown,
You would have been better off spending some or all of the 60k for solar panels on creating a house that does not need A/C in the summer, i.e. high interior thermal mass, overhangs on southern windows, extra insulation.

Rather than trying to install enough solar panels to run your electric dryer, why not install a $5 clothesline.

I took a class in college in which we did studies on various alternate forms of energy generation methods. Electricity generating windmills were found in general to never repay their initial cost of materials. That is, the energy used up to build your windmill, install it and run power lines to your house will never be regained, especially when it breaks down in a few years. You would have been better off just using that energy directly to power your household needs.

If you struggle, you will only sink faster. You can only escape by removing what is causing you to sink.

Not my house, I'm a contractor. I have no control over what other people do with their money. I don't know if pv panels return the total energy expended in their production and installation, though I suspect they do return it some times over.

I agree though, alternative energies are not going to be the primary solution to the energy problem, conservation will be, voluntary or not.

And I also agree with pnbrown about reading the thread more carefully before posting. Your post reads a bit like contradiction, whereas you're among basically like-minded people here.

Joel

Not expensive in the scale of things, and only takes a few hours to install.

Joel

A 5 dollar clothesline won't seem like such a great idea in the middle of a snowstorm in New England. I think I'd stick with the electric dryer.

Of course, the amount of energy you are using by searching internet forums on your computer could be replaced by doing research at a library, or having conversations in real life instead of online.

We all use energy for our convenience, be it the computer or the dryer. We need to use less. We know that. But if I could create my own energy for my own use, what's wrong with that? At least the guy isn't building a personal-sized coal plant in his customer's backyard.